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Difference between revisions of "Architecture Council/Minutes January 15 2009"
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* '''All PMC's''' to encourage incubating grandfathered projects ask for a mentor (by [https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/enter_bug.cgi?product=Community&component=Architecture%20Council filing an AC bug]) | * '''All PMC's''' to encourage incubating grandfathered projects ask for a mentor (by [https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/enter_bug.cgi?product=Community&component=Architecture%20Council filing an AC bug]) | ||
* [[Image:Ok_green.gif]] '''Dave Carver''' to have a look at the [[Architecture Council]] Wiki page and visually improve it for users/consumers | * [[Image:Ok_green.gif]] '''Dave Carver''' to have a look at the [[Architecture Council]] Wiki page and visually improve it for users/consumers | ||
| − | * [[Image:Ok_green.gif]] '''Dave Carver''', '''Chris''' to add links for ''Project Proposal Template'' and ''Pulling Eclipse Scripts'' into the meeting notes | + | * [[Image:Ok_green.gif]] '''Dave Carver''', '''Chris''' to add links for ''Project Proposal Template'' and ''Pulling Eclipse Scripts'' into the meeting notes, see [[Architecture Council/Minutes December 16 2008#New Topics]] |
* '''Mike''' to inform everyone when the IPZilla Legal Closed Group is ready to use | * '''Mike''' to inform everyone when the IPZilla Legal Closed Group is ready to use | ||
| − | |||
* '''Martin''' to follow up on Architecture Diagrams idea | * '''Martin''' to follow up on Architecture Diagrams idea | ||
| − | |||
| − | |||
| − | |||
| − | |||
* (''old'') '''Everyone''' add to the [[Architecture Council/Links Collection]] | * (''old'') '''Everyone''' add to the [[Architecture Council/Links Collection]] | ||
* (''old'') '''Martin''' to start a Wiki page explaining what's good about having a mentor | * (''old'') '''Martin''' to start a Wiki page explaining what's good about having a mentor | ||
| + | * Open items moved to [[#Action Items]] | ||
=== Administrative === | === Administrative === | ||
| Line 102: | Line 98: | ||
=== News from the EMO & Councils === | === News from the EMO & Councils === | ||
* December Board Minutes available? | * December Board Minutes available? | ||
| + | ** Doug Gaff [http://eclipse-committer-reps.blogspot.com/2008/12/december-2008-board-meeting.html summarizes the december board meeting] on the Committer Reps Blog | ||
| + | ** [http://www.eclipse.org/org/foundation/minutes.php Official Minutes] not yet done | ||
=== New Topics === | === New Topics === | ||
| − | * ''' | + | * Philippe Mulet - [http://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse-pmc/msg00556.html Eclipse Adoption] and API Deprecation Policy |
| − | * [[ | + | ** Platform clients have problems updating to newer Eclipse versions, in spite of remaining binary API compatible. Do others see this too? |
| + | ** How can inevitable migration effort (e.g. due to fixing semantic errors in API) be eased? | ||
| + | *** Tagging change / tools to detect change | ||
| + | ** How can we help clients become API-clean, and how can we help protect investment where API cleanliness is impossible? | ||
| + | *** Tools to report usage of non-API even in closed source | ||
| + | *** Allow clients to contribute unittests for code where they (have to) leverage internal non-API, in order to detect breakage early | ||
| + | ** How can we help clients detect usage of obsoleted features, and migrate to the new replacement feature more easily? | ||
| + | *** Soft deprecation tag | ||
| + | * [[Version Numbering Galileo Update]] | ||
| + | * Martin - '''Architectural Pillars of Eclipse''' | ||
| + | ** The original AC charter included a task to draw/maintain architecture diagrams | ||
| + | ** With Eclipse based technology in so many and diverse areas, what is it that makes Eclipse Eclipse? | ||
| + | ** Better understanding our Community | ||
| + | ** '''The License''' - EPL, the big effort of being IP clean, and awareness of IP | ||
| + | ** '''The Development Processs''' - Eclipse Projects are meant to be open, transparent and release by a known plan. Maturity stages. Commercial Open Source. Bugzilla, Newsgroups, Mailinglists. | ||
| + | ** '''Java''' - the language of choice for most stuff although there are efforts to allow other languages as well | ||
| + | ** '''OSGi / Equinox''' - The component model for everything at Eclipse, differentiates us from other communities (Apache, Netbeans) | ||
| + | ** '''SWT''' - Although there are few (runtime) efforts without SWT or with AWT/Swing integrations, SWT still builds a strong foundation for most Eclipse/RCP Apps and with the e4 investment in using SWT for Eclipse in the Browser, it'll likely remain so. | ||
| + | ** Application Model - the "twenty things", mostly UI/IDE concepts already, see [[E4/Eclipse Application Model]] | ||
| + | ** Others? E.g. Plugin Registry, our tooling (JDT, PDE), provisioning (p2)? What is it that newcomers need to learn first about Eclipse? | ||
=== Recent Discussions === | === Recent Discussions === | ||
| Line 136: | Line 153: | ||
== Action Items == | == Action Items == | ||
| + | * (''old'') '''Martin''' to follow up with the m2eclipse and IAM projects regarding duplication | ||
| + | * (''old'') '''Mik''' to create initial "architectural walkthrough" material for mylyn -- 1 wiki page not too large, send link to the mailing list (committed until end January) | ||
| + | * (''old'') '''Michael''' to flesh out the Patterns idea and remind the EAC -- started [[Architecture Council/Top Ten Recommendations#Design Patterns]], backed by EclipseCon tutorial proposals | ||
| + | ** While these show how well-known GoF patterns are applied in Eclipse, Michael's idea was more to find and describe new patterns which are specific to Eclipse | ||
| + | * (''old'') '''Michael''' to draft an E-Mail about the "plugin granularity" idea, searching for people to lead the effort | ||
== Next Meeting == | == Next Meeting == | ||
* [[Architecture Council]] call on [[Architecture Council/Minutes February 12 2008|Thursday, February 12]] | * [[Architecture Council]] call on [[Architecture Council/Minutes February 12 2008|Thursday, February 12]] | ||
Revision as of 08:42, 13 January 2009
| Meeting Title: | Architecture Council Monthly Meeting |
| Date & Time: | Tuesday January 8, 2009 at 1600 UTC / 0800 SFO / 1100 Ottawa / 1600 London / 1700 Berlin HTML |  iCal
|
| Dial-in: | (+1) 613.287.8000 (Ottawa and international) or 866.362.7064 (toll-free North America) passcode 464440# |
Contents
Attendees
- Use the Doodle Attendance Tracking Poll to confirm attendance or send regrets for this meeting. See this message for how to use it. All AC Members are invited.
- PMC Reps please confirm attendance or list your delegate below. Every PMC is required to name a primary and backup delegate, and to ensure that one delegate attends the meeting.
| BIRT: | Wenfeng Li | Gary Xue |
| DTP: | Brian Fitzpatrick | Linda Chan |
| DSDP: | Doug Gaff | Martin Oberhuber |
| Eclipse: | Philippe Mulet | Mike Wilson |
| Modeling: | Richard Gronback | Ed Merks |
| RT: | Jeff McAffer | Jochen Krause |
| STP: | Oisin Hurley | |
| Technology: | Gunnar Wagenknecht | Wayne Beaton |
| Tools: | |
|
| TPTP: | Eugene Chan | |
| WTP: | Tim deBoer | |
Agenda / Notes
- Feel free to edit, but not during the call!
Review of Action Items
- Last meeting Architecture Council/Minutes December 16 2008#Action Items
- All Mentors to enter their mentorship info into the Portal
- All PMC's to encourage incubating grandfathered projects ask for a mentor (by filing an AC bug)
-
Dave Carver to have a look at the Architecture Council Wiki page and visually improve it for users/consumers - Dave Carver, Chris to add links for Project Proposal Template and Pulling Eclipse Scripts into the meeting notes, see Architecture Council/Minutes December 16 2008#New Topics
- Mike to inform everyone when the IPZilla Legal Closed Group is ready to use
- Martin to follow up on Architecture Diagrams idea
- (old) Everyone add to the Architecture Council/Links Collection
- (old) Martin to start a Wiki page explaining what's good about having a mentor
- Open items moved to #Action Items
Administrative
- New Members: Linda Chan, Sven Efftinge (new Strategic Member)
- New Dormant Members - see Architecture Council/Members and Mentors
- New Architecture Council/Templates
- AC Admin via the Portal
- bug 256318 - Need a page that lists projects and mentors for further processing (query for projects without mentors)
- IP/Legal Discussions: Janet's E-Mail, AI Mike IPZilla closed group?
- AC Website Revamp - Dave Carver
- PMC Representation on the AC - backup delegates, 1 attendee required
- Efficient Communications
- Many AC members are involved in very many things. Need to communicate efficiently, with low "data to noise ratio"
- We already have: Bugzilla on creation/close only with opt-in; [URGENT] tag; Doodle for attendance tracking/voting; Wiki for discussions; anything else we could improve?
- Goal should be that it is easy to track what we are doing without getting spammed, and get notified of urgent matters.
News from the EMO & Councils
- December Board Minutes available?
- Doug Gaff summarizes the december board meeting on the Committer Reps Blog
- Official Minutes not yet done
New Topics
- Philippe Mulet - Eclipse Adoption and API Deprecation Policy
- Platform clients have problems updating to newer Eclipse versions, in spite of remaining binary API compatible. Do others see this too?
- How can inevitable migration effort (e.g. due to fixing semantic errors in API) be eased?
- Tagging change / tools to detect change
- How can we help clients become API-clean, and how can we help protect investment where API cleanliness is impossible?
- Tools to report usage of non-API even in closed source
- Allow clients to contribute unittests for code where they (have to) leverage internal non-API, in order to detect breakage early
- How can we help clients detect usage of obsoleted features, and migrate to the new replacement feature more easily?
- Soft deprecation tag
- Version Numbering Galileo Update
- Martin - Architectural Pillars of Eclipse
- The original AC charter included a task to draw/maintain architecture diagrams
- With Eclipse based technology in so many and diverse areas, what is it that makes Eclipse Eclipse?
- Better understanding our Community
- The License - EPL, the big effort of being IP clean, and awareness of IP
- The Development Processs - Eclipse Projects are meant to be open, transparent and release by a known plan. Maturity stages. Commercial Open Source. Bugzilla, Newsgroups, Mailinglists.
- Java - the language of choice for most stuff although there are efforts to allow other languages as well
- OSGi / Equinox - The component model for everything at Eclipse, differentiates us from other communities (Apache, Netbeans)
- SWT - Although there are few (runtime) efforts without SWT or with AWT/Swing integrations, SWT still builds a strong foundation for most Eclipse/RCP Apps and with the e4 investment in using SWT for Eclipse in the Browser, it'll likely remain so.
- Application Model - the "twenty things", mostly UI/IDE concepts already, see E4/Eclipse Application Model
- Others? E.g. Plugin Registry, our tooling (JDT, PDE), provisioning (p2)? What is it that newcomers need to learn first about Eclipse?
Recent Discussions
- Mentorship
- Tom S: Project Proposals - RCP infra for getting them in easily vs. Wiki pages
- Tom S: Best practice for picking up I-builds - HTTP downloads are slow, installation cumbersome
- Christian Kurzke (TmL project, DSDP PMC) - recurring scanning of all code for IP issues
- Martin: Architecture Diagrams -
- Eclipse is growing rapidly, and it's getting ever harder to understand what projects are available, how they are interrelated and where there is duplication.
- It was the original AC charter to create an architecture plan
- Can we auto-generate an architecture diagram? - Some ideas:
- Scan the project's web pages and CVS Repository and build a semantic web
- Analyze the MANIFEST.MF dependencies in each project's repository HEAD, generate a dependency graph out of it and use some graph layout / clustering algorithm (could we allow interactive zooming into clusters?)
- Define some keywords, and ask each project use the Portal to pick keywords that are relevant for their project. Based on keyword association, have some graph auto-generated (clustered by keywords).
- AI Martin ask on mailing list
- Denis' blog on dead bugzilla's.
- bug 256660 What are best practices to keep bugzilla alive and users interested, without taking away too much time from committers?
- Should it be added as advice for mentored projects? Should the AC engage in the public discussion?
Old items
- See also Architecture Council/Open Issues for overflow items that were not discussed
Action Items
- (old) Martin to follow up with the m2eclipse and IAM projects regarding duplication
- (old) Mik to create initial "architectural walkthrough" material for mylyn -- 1 wiki page not too large, send link to the mailing list (committed until end January)
- (old) Michael to flesh out the Patterns idea and remind the EAC -- started Architecture Council/Top Ten Recommendations#Design Patterns, backed by EclipseCon tutorial proposals
- While these show how well-known GoF patterns are applied in Eclipse, Michael's idea was more to find and describe new patterns which are specific to Eclipse
- (old) Michael to draft an E-Mail about the "plugin granularity" idea, searching for people to lead the effort